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Alternative saving/trading platforms to Goldmoney

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  • #82
    Mr Troy Oz
    Participant

    What are Goldmoney expats doing now that Goldmoney is closing down its Personal Acct option for the small trader who just wanted an economical venue to store and save their money in gold/silver rather than in fiat currency?

    Are you choosing to revert back to your local bullion dealer to source your gold & silver holdings?
    *If so, what options are you using for storage:
    – Hidden somewhere at home or in a home safe?
    – A local private company offering secured vaulting services?
    – Other?
    Or
    – Will you choose to sign up with another web based bullion company similar to Goldmoney?

    • This topic was modified 3 months, 2 weeks ago by Mr Troy Oz.
    #84
    xtof
    Participant

    Holding account as far as I am concerned at this point in time.

    Despite the fact that the new “minimum 10 USD per month” fee means that cost is increasing, and that several features disappeared over the last couple of years, I still see some value in it.
    I hope that GM will not add/remove/update any functionality for 6-9 months so that we can see how it will work in the long term, once most of the smaller accounts have been closed.

    #86
    IrishGuy
    Participant

    @mrTroyOz

    It is a great question and I would be the same as @xtof at present as I still like the idea of trading between silver and gold (ratio is 86:1)
    Ideally if you have access to a safe that works best.
    A locker in your place of work if it has 24h security is something I used previously. Work would typically give the contents to next of kin and HR would open with security.
    Burying it in the back garden or in the house. Sometimes in plain site might be an option if crime is low. I.e bookshelf and just cut a whole in one of the books. In back of a freezer in with an open pack of something. …..
    also best to have a few locations and just ensure someone you trust and would get it anyway would be able to find it in the event of something happening to you.

    Hope this helps

    #90
    Gold’n’Roll
    Keymaster

    Since I am a bullion dealer, I store my gold but my wholesale partner has good storage options and they are very trustworthy. They are present in Singapore also:

    https://www.gvs-bullion.com/pages/en/storage.html

    https://www.gvs-bullion.com/pages/en/locations.php

    I know that Bullion Star are the largest gold dealer in Singapore and they have storage in Singapore and New Zealand:

    https://www.bullionstar.com/

    Goldmoney is still an option for more than 1 kilo in storage but they have to somehow differentiate from traditional gold storage services like GVS and Bullion Star. Traditional dealers offer segregated storage all over the world, easy to withdraw physically, at the same price Goldmoney stores in allocated accounts, with no possibility to withdraw in person.

    So if it’s just for storage, I don’t think Goldmoney are the best option even for large quantities.
    Instead, Goldmoney is a great trading platform. I think GM is excellent for traders too small for bullion banks, who prefer to trade physical rather than futures, who buy and sell frequently or exchange between metals. Their main competitor now is BullionVault.

    #94
    Mr Troy Oz
    Participant

    @Gold’n’Roll.. I see you are one very savvy guy who’s quite aware of the bullion trading/storage options available to us from around the world.

    And yes, Bullion Star is one of the largest and longest operating online dealers with a physical presence located in Singapore.
    I’ve been a client virtually since the start up of ‘Stars’ operations in Singapore. They have been my principal online source for the bulk of my bullion storage and purchases. Their operation is simple & easy to work with, and rarely have they, if ever, experience platform or ‘regulatory’ issues; unlike that with Goldmoney!

    I’m very happy with Bullion Star’s services and will stay on with them for many years to come.
    I only became quite interested when Roy S. started up ‘BitGold, and eventually Goldmoney, I had high hopes this would be a great opportunity to diversify some of my holdings back into my home country of Canada. Thus I opened a ‘Personal’ acct. to test the waters.
    – Though it started out well, over time Goldmoney, whether ‘personal or Holding’ accts, began offering only crippled platform services and ultimately massive disappointment for me.
    – However, I suppose Goldmoney’s ‘Holding Acct’ could still be considered a viable (but barely, IMHO), opportunity to ‘diversify’ ones assets away from the banking cartel.
    – Goldmoney still offers one of the most cost effective companies in the World to buy and sell gold at low premiums. But its other issues, which are many, contribute to making Goldmoney an expensive – and possibly risky proposition at the end of the day.

    PS: And Yes Gold’n’Roll, after plying around a bit, I learned how easy it is to post new thread titles under the site’s ‘Topic category’s.
    – And thank you for adding “Goldmoney Inc” as a catagory to the list. I suspect ‘Goldmoney’ may become the subject for many postings in future. Good move!

    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by Mr Troy Oz.
    • This reply was modified 3 months, 1 week ago by Mr Troy Oz.
    #101
    xtof
    Participant

    I will have to give a serious look at Bullion Star, and its Bullion Saving Program
    I was thinking the choice fpr someone like me was down to BullionVault and GoldMoney.

    #104
    kris
    Participant

    It was on the Goldmoney Community back in May this year that someone had posted about Kinesis Money (https://kinesis.money/). I did my research and thought they had a sound model.

    According to their founders, Goldmoney and others failed because of Gresham’s Law. We as customers don’t want to spend the “good” money, we hoard the “good” money, gold, and spend the bad money, fiat. As a result platforms like Goldmoney never realise their transaction volume projections and inevitably have to increase fees, introduce storage fees etc etc.

    Kinesis Money aims to beat Gresham’s Law by offering yield.

    Positives:
    No storage fees
    Uses Allocated Bullion Exchange as its backbone, which has a 10 year history
    Promises to pay yield for minting, holding, spending and referring. Plus there is an investor yield if you invested in their ITO.

    Negatives:
    New entrant, currently in a sort of beta/semi launch status
    Debit card still not operational, not much of a negative because Goldmoney’s isn’t operational either
    Promised yield has not yet been realised due to delays in rolling out platform

    I am a customer and an investor, I am hopeful, the business proposition sounded good, so I’m sticking with them. But I have seen several delays, hopefully 2020 will be the year for Kinesis Money.

    Another one that I’m looking at is sendgold.com. It’s got smaller ambitions than Kinesis Money but looks pretty good.

    #105
    Mr Troy Oz
    Participant

    @xtof, Bullion Star works for me as a very reasonable alternative to GM’s ‘Holding Acct’. (Plus be aware that it is also a bullion dealer with something to sell). Possibly not the most cost effective considering the shipping costs for physical, insurance, and distance to North America.

    However, I do like the Bullion Saving Program which works well, no minimum balances, plus the ability to also deposit & hold cash on one’s acct, which can be converted to gold or virtually any other currency as desired or needed. The annual storage fees work out to 0.9% on stored balances.
    Signing up for a verified account is far less burdensome than in the West, requiring at the time I joined, only my passport, a home address (on passport) and a telephone number. Done.

    A big plus I see for using Singapore based bullion companies is the fact that the Singapore Govt applies it’s own set of compliance rules on both companies and their clients.
    – Singapore neither follows or is intimidated by the Orwellian U.S. Govt compliance regulations imposed on Westerners. The only time some of this may come into play is when using the Swift system to transfer funds to a U.S/Can. heavily regulated financial company, (like Goldmoney). Fund transfers to one’s home bank has never been a problem. 1 to 3 days. (To an Asian bank acct – it’s usually hours, or the same day!). (Obviously not using the Swift system it seems).

    And unlike Goldmoney, you will never experience being ‘ambushed’ the same day you need to withdraw some funds from your acct.
    In Singapore, no more of this ‘submitting proof’ of address every 4 months, or having to provide 20 pages of ‘Source of Funds’ documents, signed off by a lawyer and submitted by courier, to await examination by, and for ‘someones’ approval.
    – A process which effectively takes control out of your hands over your own money!

    The second biggest reason I’m glad to have left GM is their lack of communication, openness, or even a sense of partnership between client and company.
    – It always seems their customers are the last to know, there’s never a ‘heads up’ given, and rarely an explanation until well after the event has taken place!
    – In other words, with Goldmoney, it always feels like we’ve been ambushed and left scrambling to find out why on our own.

    These are the primary reasons I gave up on GM. Not the system or platform, but rather the attitude towards its clients.

    Business Friendly.
    The Singapore Govt actually helps and assists financial type companies to get set up and operating profitably and freely with the least friction possible between the Govt, the company and its customers.
    – Singapore definitely offers a much more reasonable and friendlier business environment for both corporations and customers than in the West. Here you really can experience the benefits of ‘freedom of trade’, without heavy Govt oversight and duress.

    And Singapore is about to grow and become one of the worlds very largest financial hubs.
    – With Hong Kong facing an uncertain future within China’s realm, many HK corporations are relocating their operations to Singapore for many of the reasons I describe above. Singapore is becoming a crowded place – but always vibrant and exciting.
    – Many companies from Australia and New Zealand had relocated here years ago and more continue to do so today.

    But just because Singapore offers a much freer and unencumbered business environment doesn’t mean it’s an ‘anything goes’ free for all for business to take advantage of the unsuspecting.
    Singapore can, will, and has imposed heavy penalties on corporations found to be suspect and guilty of untoward business practices.
    Singapore has it’s reputation to protect and has expelled offending companies large and small from it’s shores in the past.

    One financial corporation that recently set up operations in Singapore is J.P Morgan Bank.
    – There was barely any news reported about this in the west but, two of J.P Morgans trading employees brought over from the U.S were recently expelled from Singapore for for having gotten caught conducting ‘deceptive trading practices’. Where have we heard this before?

    What cautions or penalties were imposed on J.P Morgan I don’t know. But be assured, if further breaches of Singapore’s business practice regulations were to continue, J.P Morgan could well be asked to leave the City States shores.

    So it begs the question, if billionaire investor Jim Rogers has found good reasons to move his family and call Singapore home,
    why can’t Roy just move his Goldmoney Inc company to Singapore as well.

    – His business model doesn’t require that he be stuck in Canada to conduct business. And 2nd, he’d be free of the heavy handed regulation and expense imposed on him by the banking cartel in North America, thus his cost of conducting business would drop as well.
    – And I’m sure he’d find Singapore to be a beautiful world class city to call home, where the dominant language is English and the climate very accommodating to good health.

    #106
    Mr Troy Oz
    Participant

    @kris, Yeah, I was really keen and hopeful that Kineses was gong to be the magic bullet company on the blockchain to free us all from the control of the archaic banking system we all have to deal with today. I’m still hopeful Kineses will get its act together before I look at it again.
    But as you say, the delays and the missing functionality is discouraging for me.
    However, if they do get everything up and running as they envision, it could turn out to be the game changer the free world has been waiting for.

    I’m hearing of other developers working on blockchain based platforms for precious metals and am keeping my eyes open to any new news and ideas.
    But somewhere along the way, someone is going to nail it and we’ll have an alternative to the banking cartels monopoly one day.

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by Mr Troy Oz.
    #109
    Gold’n’Roll
    Keymaster

    @MrTroyOz I like what you say about Singapore, it gives me a hint of where to go if things turn ugly here in Europe.

    #110
    xtof
    Participant

    Very informative @MrTroyOz!

    Same as @Gold’n’Roll I am based in Europe. SWIFT would not be an worry for me unless mayyyybe if I ever used USD to transact.

    #113
    Mr Troy Oz
    Participant

    @xtof, @irishguy.. Best wishes for a Happy New Year!

    Being that you guy’s are sticking with Goldmoney for the time being, I hope you can keep us updated with the goings-on at GM.
    Now that GM has shut down the personal community board (very early on Dec 31 BTW) I have no links to GM at all!

    Don’t get me wrong – I’m still hopeful Goldmoney can get their act together with their Holding acct, but it seems of late, GM has put more of its focus on becoming a jewellery wholesale company with their Menē marketing program rather than on anything else.
    (I know for certain Goldmoney would do well in Asia with its Menē program as this fits the Asian gold culture here perfectly).
    – He just has to move here to do it.

    #114
    Mr Troy Oz
    Participant

    @Gold’n’Roll.. ‘What are you waiting for?’

    Unless you have strong family obligations or commitments to where you are presently living, I would seriously take a look at your Asian Optionsbefore the bottom falls out of Europe!

    But Singapore may not be your best option. Singapore, like Hong Kong, can be a very expensive place to live.
    – Many things are inexpensive but housing accommodation, hotels, condo’s, automobiles, are very expensive.

    However, if I were packing my bags today, my air ticket would be for ‘Vietnam‘!
    – In my travels throughout Asia over the last 18 months, I have met literally hundreds of European expats who’ve moved here on a permanent bases, particularly to Vietnam. And not just singles but whole families, including their cats and dogs.. and their businesses.
    One reason? Your cost of living can drop to 30%, to 50% at the high end of what you’re paying to live the same standards in the West!
    – And you will want for nothing. Everything and anything including Hi priced brands in the west are available here at far lower cost. Of course many of those ‘hi-priced’ brands are manufactured here, so it’s easy to find them at a quarter of the cost here.
    And I’m talking about high quality clothing, shoes, jeans etc.

    Vietnam has a very open and welcoming population. You will not feel out of place here for very long. They easily want to make your acquaintance, and if you need help with anything, they will go out of their way to help you out. You’ll make many friends here quickly. They love Euro foreigners!

    Plus one thing that is striking is, the number of Woman from all over Europe, that have moved to Vietnam to live and stay!
    Many have set up niche business shops catering to tourists, locals, and the strong growing expat communities.
    – Vietnam, is absolutely safe for single Woman to wonder around freely without fear, except other than the rare petty theft that occurs once in a blue moon. (usually a crime of opportunity by your own fault).
    – Another big plus is, in the big cities, almost everyone here under the age of 50 speaks near perfect English! In the smaller towns and villages, you may be encouraged to learn a bit of Viet.. the basics of which are actually very easy learn.
    (Vietnamese is not a tonal language – so easy to learn, speak and be understood).

    I’d say to you, investigate. I could go on for hours about the benefits of moving to Asia.
    – But as a starting point, I’d suggest viewing some of many good YouTube vloggers who show you their real experiences living as expats in Vietnam.. anywhere from the most modest budgets, to the sky’s the limit, and everything in between.

    One such Vlogger I can recommend for dead accurate, reliable information about visa’s, living costs and everything else is: retirecheap.asia.
    – He has lived here some 20 years now and primarily is/was Thailand centered. But lately switched his focus to Vietnam!
    – Also, Ignore the generational difference, it’s not just about retirement. The information he provides on his RC Membership site is deep and extensive. For just $10 usd/mo. you have access to information in one place that covers almost every question you could have about living in Thailand, Vietnam or anywhere else in Asia.
    – His site is where I got started and discovered Asia. Here I am, No regrets, no looking back.. or going back.

    Of course maybe the best thing to do is book a holiday trip here to scout things out. A month would be adequate to get a feel for the place, but get out from the tourist areas and go exploring. Maybe meet up with an expat to show you around.

    So Gold’n’Roll.. am I sparking your curiosity at all?

    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by Mr Troy Oz.
    • This reply was modified 3 months ago by Mr Troy Oz.
    #118
    xtof
    Participant

    I will keep the community up to date with what is going on, @Mr Troy Oz.
    The issue is that, as you noted communication is not GM’s forte and I will be one of the last aware of what is going on 🙂

    All the changes “have gone in the wrong direction” (in the sense that features have been removed) but did not affect me personally that much.
    I did not have crypto, I did not fund my account by card as there was an extra fee for it, I never had any card withdrawn … and we can even argue that the last “minimum fee” is compensated by the dividend which kicked in a few months ago.

    Over the last couple of GM is (in my opinion) simply getting rid of the non profitable customers.
    I understand compliance is a cost and a headache … but this is exactly the same for competitors and it is a nice excuse to make it too expensive for small customers to stay (unless there is something specific to GM that has not been disclosed).
    I am curious to see if GM is simply the first one facing AML KYC challenges or if everyone else will follow in the coming weeks.

    The more I look at Singapore and Bullion Star, the more I like it : thanks for pointing it out as an alternative!

    #132
    Mr Troy Oz
    Participant

    Has anyone looked at GlintPay.com as and alternative to GM?
    I haven’t done any in-depth research on Glint (yet) but from the little I’ve read, Glint appears to offer everything Goldmoney could only promise and never has.

    I lost interest in GlintPay when some months ago I heard Glint had gone into “Administration’, as the process is called in Briton.
    (However, it seems it never affected Glints operations in the U.S.)
    – And it now appears that whatever problems they were having in the U.K/EU has been resolved and Glint is back in operation.

    I got my heads up on this latest development from watching this gentleman (Maneco64) on YouTube. He’s a regular contributor (i.e. prolific) poster on YouTube and comes from a long career in the banking and financial sector in Briton.

    – YouTube link>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_cRWjhIOH8&t=1s (His Glint comments start at 12:48).

    Re: Maneco64
    – At first glance he may not appear the part – but don’t underestimate this chap. He called the recent sharp uptrend in gold the week before it happened. And concurring with his analysis with that of my own, I bought and made a nice profit on the quick gold price lift-off – ending with a sale right at the top! at $1611/oz USD.
    BTW, I’m no day trader. I’d be best described as a ‘long or short term’ trend trader.

    – This is not the first time he’s made such calls for quick up or down gold price movements. He’s been pretty darn accurate with his trend analysis before!

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